1) A business basic: sometimes people like McDonalds… and perhaps McDojos too. McDonald’s is unhealthy as hell but damn it sometimes you want to indulge. If a McDojo won’t produce the next UFC champ but will get a student motivated, up off the couch and participating – even if at a minor level – that could be just what that student wants and needs. And could be better for the student than the alternative of staying on the couch.

2) Re: deceptive practices: if we are talking deceptive practices: promising more than can be delivered, crap contracts etc: that’s crap but again, I’d have to put my faith in the student. Seems like most people have a pretty low tolerance for being taken advantage of. And if that is your business model I wouldn’t expect it to last very long. Word can spread fast.

3) On one side this debate sounds so snobbish. “Schools that sell out and target the masses are crap!” Oh boo hoo. If they are providing a service that students happily are paying for then why would you deny a student their right to put their $ where they want?

But on the other hand I do appreciate that there are school owners, such as yourselves and others, who are having this debate. I hear it from my instructor as well. I’m glad that there are school owners who value quality and care about what their students learn — and are passionate enough to raise hell when they see others being deceptive.

Just remember that bettering yourself physically and mentally can be done in all kinds of ways and by all kinds of degrees.

“I hear a lot of denial in these posts. I’m sorry but once you inject money into the equation the true spirit of the martial art is lost. You can rationalize it all you want. But the martial art as a “profession” is absurd and down right deceitful. A true master teaches a student the art because he wants to with minimal compensation. Period. Paragraph. Furthermore, that compensation is really nothing more than the representation of a students will to learn. This does not apply to the average person duped into signing up for or staying in a school that is for profit at any level.

The motivation for the teacher is teaching, and not doing it as just a vocation or even avocation.

How this relates to the realities today is a true conundrum. Again, I regard the true spirit of the martial arts is lost.”

What is money, JOE, it is an instrument used for debt. In the old days, Master’s were paid with, livestock, cleaning the school, going to the store and picking up food for the master. Whatever was considered a fair trade for services rendered sound familiar.

So nowadays, we have this instrument called the dollar bill here in the United States and as such this is the preferred currency of trade for services rendered.

I too started training at age four, and have over 35 years invested in my martial arts training. Let’s put that into Harvard Law, or Harvard Medical Terms. Does what I teach have any less value than these students who graduate? I don’t think so, I have educated students in changing their lifestyle habits, I have changed their way of thinking about exercise, fitness and nutrition.

So Harvard costs about $45,000 semester, approximately, so why shouldn’t I be able to charge appropriately for my knowledge when it helps someone who has trouble focusing, anger issues, low self-esteem, etc….

Now this person, has a good body image, can focus, is more disciplined in life, work, home. What is this worth???????

So what if he drives a Mercedes did that instructor not pay his/her dues, in time invested in something he/she loves?

I understand part-time instructors, don’t get me wrong, but how many people could you help if you had more business sense and weren’t so blinded by the “monk like living in poverty” dogma that has permeated this profession by the the “holier than thou” instructors.

Let’s look at Bruce Lee, he charged accordingly to his knowledge and who he was teaching as others have before him. Was Bruce a McDojo???? He taught for money, so he could provide for his wife and son.

Just my two cents worth, as I am so tired of hearing this “old hermit living in a cave mentality”.

Thank You,

Forgive Me If I have Offended You, I just want to reiterate how much you benefit society by having full-time schools as opposed to part-time hobbies.

Master Chris Yi

I have to agree with your statement “A Martial Arts Teacher is an educator. Some good, some bad. In higher education Harvard is widely recognized as the (or, one of the) leading institution in the United States.”

It is exactly what I tell people (not clients or prospects, but colleagues) that say ‘wow, you charge a lot for Karate lessons’…

My response.

You are paying for my knowledge, not my accomplishments. I just so happened to also gain knowledge through my accomplishments.

In addition, a professor – at ANY higher education university – needs what to teach? A Ph.D… right? Plus, these professors are being paid very well too, right? The one’s with experience can easily pull in 6 figures.

So… now the next question is ‘how long does it take to receive a Ph.D?’

- Four years for undergrad. (1st Dan in most styles)
- Two years for Masters. (2nd Dan in some styles)
- And two to four years for Ph.D – depending on field (2nd or 3rd Dan in other styles).

That’s about 8-10 years of academia this person has spent educating their life. In order to better themselves against others, and be an experienced and knowledgeable TEACHER.

Now, for my colleagues that continue to say I ‘charge too much’.

RESPONSE: I have a Ph.D in the Martial Arts – specifically Wado Karate. I’ve been training for nearly 19 years. So why shouldn’t I charge what I’m worth. If going to Harvard means I will get the best education possibly in the country, with the best professors, than training at my school is equivalent.

So, remember… Students are paying for the value you offer and the knowledge you share. It is up to you, as a business owner, to put a fair price as to what the market can bare, and make sure you give what you sell. If you don’t, you are stealing people’s money.

If someone pays you $200/month for Karate lessons, is that too much? Not if the rest of the market can bare the price.

Last I checked, buying a Lexus essentially says you are getting the best quality car… And they aren’t cheap. Those car payments are around $500/month.

But, I can get a used, American car for cheaper… But… remember the old saying. You get what you pay for. Remember our 1st car in High School?

My parting words…
School Owners – ask yourself. Are you a Lexus or Ford Pinto?

If you’re a Lexus, you better be giving High Value and Service at all times.

If you’re a Pinto…

Javier Lozano, Jr.
3rd Dan – Wado Ryu Karate

Anyway. What’s the order of priority?

Well in strictly business terms Peter Drucker said the purpose of any business is to get and keep a customer.

How do you prioritize? Start with the “keep a customer” in other words create a program that will create “raging “thunder lizard” evangelists” (Love that term borrowed with credit from Guy Kawasaki.)

Student retention requires sincere concern for the student. Quality instructional technique. A valuable curriculum. And, producing the promised results in the majority of students.

Unfortunately some otherwise sincere martial arts enthusiasts define McDojo’s as school’s that have developed motivating teaching styles and a retention oriented curriculum. Few “amateur” teachers (part-time, non-professional) have extensively studied teaching methodology, educational psychology, human relations, leadership, and human relations skills.

Just because you are rough and tough, or require training for 12 years to get a Black Belt, or have students spar at white belt or some other thing does not mean you are teaching quality martial arts and producing quality Black Belts.

And, nothing personal Joe but:

“I hear a lot of denial in these posts. I’m sorry but once you inject money into the equation the true spirit of the martial art is lost. You can rationalize it all you want. But the martial art as a “profession” is absurd and down right deceitful. A true master teaches a student the art because he wants to with minimal compensation. Period. Paragraph. Furthermore, that compensation is really nothing more than the representation of a students will to learn. This does not apply to the average person duped into signing up for or staying in a school that is for profit at any level.”

This is just ridiculous.

A Martial Arts Teacher is an educator. Some good, some bad. In higher education Harvard is widely recognized as the (or, one of the) leading institution in the United States. In part because they have both the largest endowment and the highest quality and best paid professors.

By the way they also have some of the “toughest” curriculum and highest graduation rate to their equivalent of a Black Belt (ie. BA) 97% achieve after 4 years.

I’ve recently meet with many “Old Master’s” some have affected 1,000’s of students and passed on life-changing value to their students by focusing on their school as a real educational institution (read business), others had a MUCH more limited influence due to spending 40-60 hours a week doing something else to make a living and therefore never truely developing Mastery in Teaching and never developing much of a following.

The other principle described by Drucker -Create a Customer.

Frankly, it’s impossible to be a “Leader” with no followers. It’s imperative that anyone who believes in their curriculum and their school to share it with their community. That takes time, money, and expertise.

Ultimately, many talented athletes never become quality teachers.

Some who become quality teachers (with sincere concern for their students) fail to figure out how to market their school and therefore impact few lives and often close their school due to the failure to attract an adequate following.

Stephen Oliver, MBA
8th Degree Black Belt.
CEO – National Association of Professional Martial Artists (NAPMA)
Publisher – Martial Arts Professional Magazine
Founder/CEO – Mile High Karate

For more information on the subject, I reccomend the book “A Killing Art” by Alex Gillis. Fantastic book.

Yours in Taekwondo.

Ben England, Instructor, Evesham Taekwondo; 3rd Dan.

The motivation for the teacher is teaching, and not doing it as just a vocation or even avocation.

How this relates to the realities today is a true conundrum. Again, I regard the true spirit of the martial arts is lost.